Have you heard of the “Ho Ho test”? I have no idea what it is but it has recently entered our leadership team’s lexicon and I’m wondering if it can just mean if it’s approved by you and JHoule…?
That would make more sense.
Very glad you jive with this format. That stamp of approval (or, signed hoho test QC report) is very reassuring!!!! if you have feedback lmk. you likely have all the lessons learned from NI, etc.
Ohhhh yeah. My bad. The JHo JHo test. can we get a short post or a dual live to really break this down? give some examples from the zeitgeist. I think we need a good ol fashioned chalk talk on this one.
I've had it saved, ready to enjoy with my morning coffee. First of all, what a great format, Dan. It strikes the perfect balance; light-hearted, hugely informative, and deeply meaningful, which sums up Jen's approach perfectly too!
@Des Kennedy so great to hear from you. Good morning. (probably afternoon across the pond now so I hope you have some fresh coffee/tea) and cheers!
Thank you so much on the reassurance of the format. I’m standing on the shoulders of giants having watched you and Sven build confidently Creative and Jen build Natural Intelligence. I’m sure there’s others too.
Thanks for sharing this, Dan. I genuinely enjoyed reading it.
Jennifer comes across as someone who's thoughtful, self-aware, and refreshingly honest. 🙂
I really liked her point about curiosity producing better leadership than certainty, that was a great point.
I think you have a real knack for asking the kind of questions that get beyond the 'polished' version of people and into who they actually are. I'm really looking forward to reading more of these.
Hell yeah! That’s exactly what I’m going for. :) very very glad this landed well and that this is a series that will hopefully provide value beyond the first few interviews. I’m excited for yours.
JHo, I am CRYING at the idea of you creeping up on an elderly man and telling him “I’m following you”. I think I would have died from embarrassment on the spot.
I think the most interesting stories are usually the ones where someone realizes the thing they thought was a weakness was really part of what made them good at what they do.
Thank you, Neela, and just so you know, I am mortified that I forgot to include you in the list of Substackers I love. I read all your posts! In my defence, I was on my laptop at the trampoline park while my son and his friend were begging me to buy them both annual memberships, so I was a bit distracted.
Two things from Jennifer's answers are going to stay with me. First, defining leadership by its opposite — "protecting your own comfort, status, or ego at the expense of the people and systems you're responsible for." That's a cleaner test than most values statements I've read. Second, "get off the damn balcony" — the reminder that your title changes your vantage point but not reality.
I've seen that in operations: decisions made on the balcony get lived out on the floor by people who never got a vote. Her idea of becoming a sense-maker instead of just a shield for your team is the part I want to sit with. Strong start to the series, Dan — what pulled you toward building these interviews around leadership and emotional intelligence specifically?
My friend Charles! I think you’ve read/seen a few of my posts today? Thank you so much for reading and engaging and thinking about these works.
Its a very big compliment.
Yes yes! Jennifer is one of the good ones we look up to and hope that we can be like her some days. I feel the same.
Why leadership and emotional intelligence….
I originally set out to speak with and work for operations leaders. I am an operations leader. I’ve been an operations leader. And I know that this flavor of leadership is unique. The speed, the pressure, and the people it attracts. The intersection of research (thinking about shit) and production (getting shit done) is a fun line to ride.
It’s also where you end up with technically gifted folks who lack the EQ skills to be effective. Having a technically gifted technical leader who understands listening, relating, empathy… is the strongest production asset. And yet, we hire for credentials and degrees. To fix that we have to teach people EQ. So that’s my goal. That’s the dream.
Bad leadership has always pissed me off. And, it’s something I’m afraid of becoming. So I’ve read and written and philosophized about it a bit and I want to keep doing that. Substack and my podcast are my mechanisms to learn and share those findings with others.
It works out well! there’s an audience here of peeps who want to read about my journey of building a company to teach people empathy. I’m lucky.
If I didn’t have that who knows if i’d spend the time to make a good podcast episode or write another essay and release it on time.
I have a lot of thoughts about this. Hope this answered your question. Looking forward to seeing your work and sharing more conversation.
Hey hey hey! good morning! You’re on the ball today. I haven’t even finished sharing the post and you’re already done and commented. Really thankful I asked Jennifer because she crushed it.
Inspiring to read about people who care about the people in the system. It’s so easy to forget we are the foundation to everything and need to be designed around first.
LOL so glad you asked her. I agree. The problem is usually the system, not the people. And Jennifer is one of the real ones who's working to change the system from the inside.
Dan I love this format. Especially the little Notes interludes.
JHo I love… you 😍. <I’m following you> quite literally.
Have you heard of the “Ho Ho test”? I have no idea what it is but it has recently entered our leadership team’s lexicon and I’m wondering if it can just mean if it’s approved by you and JHoule…?
That would make more sense.
Very glad you jive with this format. That stamp of approval (or, signed hoho test QC report) is very reassuring!!!! if you have feedback lmk. you likely have all the lessons learned from NI, etc.
Maybe you’re confusing this with the “JHo JHo test?”
It’s basically one question and a request.
Do you suck?
If yes, go away
If no, sit here :)
Ohhhh yeah. My bad. The JHo JHo test. can we get a short post or a dual live to really break this down? give some examples from the zeitgeist. I think we need a good ol fashioned chalk talk on this one.
Lives can accommodate 3. JHo squared might make the whole thing combust tho.
If you’re both in I can come up with some great questions.
I don't know if Substack (aka LIFE) is ready for this.
You two are quite literally my two favorite JHos.
🤗
I just knew this would be good! 🤩
I've had it saved, ready to enjoy with my morning coffee. First of all, what a great format, Dan. It strikes the perfect balance; light-hearted, hugely informative, and deeply meaningful, which sums up Jen's approach perfectly too!
Great stuff from you both!
@Des Kennedy so great to hear from you. Good morning. (probably afternoon across the pond now so I hope you have some fresh coffee/tea) and cheers!
Thank you so much on the reassurance of the format. I’m standing on the shoulders of giants having watched you and Sven build confidently Creative and Jen build Natural Intelligence. I’m sure there’s others too.
Cheers. Drink some builders tea for me.
~d
Thanks for sharing this, Dan. I genuinely enjoyed reading it.
Jennifer comes across as someone who's thoughtful, self-aware, and refreshingly honest. 🙂
I really liked her point about curiosity producing better leadership than certainty, that was a great point.
I think you have a real knack for asking the kind of questions that get beyond the 'polished' version of people and into who they actually are. I'm really looking forward to reading more of these.
Hell yeah! That’s exactly what I’m going for. :) very very glad this landed well and that this is a series that will hopefully provide value beyond the first few interviews. I’m excited for yours.
JHo, I am CRYING at the idea of you creeping up on an elderly man and telling him “I’m following you”. I think I would have died from embarrassment on the spot.
I will never live it down. That poor man!
This was amazing! Loved getting to know you more, Jennifer. 💜 you’re one of my favorites too!
The note insertion was fabulous :)
I think the most interesting stories are usually the ones where someone realizes the thing they thought was a weakness was really part of what made them good at what they do.
Thank you Dan and Jennifer. 10/10
Thank you, Neela, and just so you know, I am mortified that I forgot to include you in the list of Substackers I love. I read all your posts! In my defence, I was on my laptop at the trampoline park while my son and his friend were begging me to buy them both annual memberships, so I was a bit distracted.
Thank you, Dan, for updating!
:)
If you're already buying them memberships.... let me know if I can have one too. I'll bring orange slices and capri suns.
Truthfully, I didn’t notice that part :)
Now I'm hurt - 🤣
I'm just kidding.
I also don’t think about stuff like that.
I appreciate you too, Jennifer
Very wholesome and wonderful! This is a good comments section. Cheers everyone.
Have a good weekend Dan
Two things from Jennifer's answers are going to stay with me. First, defining leadership by its opposite — "protecting your own comfort, status, or ego at the expense of the people and systems you're responsible for." That's a cleaner test than most values statements I've read. Second, "get off the damn balcony" — the reminder that your title changes your vantage point but not reality.
I've seen that in operations: decisions made on the balcony get lived out on the floor by people who never got a vote. Her idea of becoming a sense-maker instead of just a shield for your team is the part I want to sit with. Strong start to the series, Dan — what pulled you toward building these interviews around leadership and emotional intelligence specifically?
My friend Charles! I think you’ve read/seen a few of my posts today? Thank you so much for reading and engaging and thinking about these works.
Its a very big compliment.
Yes yes! Jennifer is one of the good ones we look up to and hope that we can be like her some days. I feel the same.
Why leadership and emotional intelligence….
I originally set out to speak with and work for operations leaders. I am an operations leader. I’ve been an operations leader. And I know that this flavor of leadership is unique. The speed, the pressure, and the people it attracts. The intersection of research (thinking about shit) and production (getting shit done) is a fun line to ride.
It’s also where you end up with technically gifted folks who lack the EQ skills to be effective. Having a technically gifted technical leader who understands listening, relating, empathy… is the strongest production asset. And yet, we hire for credentials and degrees. To fix that we have to teach people EQ. So that’s my goal. That’s the dream.
Bad leadership has always pissed me off. And, it’s something I’m afraid of becoming. So I’ve read and written and philosophized about it a bit and I want to keep doing that. Substack and my podcast are my mechanisms to learn and share those findings with others.
It works out well! there’s an audience here of peeps who want to read about my journey of building a company to teach people empathy. I’m lucky.
If I didn’t have that who knows if i’d spend the time to make a good podcast episode or write another essay and release it on time.
I have a lot of thoughts about this. Hope this answered your question. Looking forward to seeing your work and sharing more conversation.
~d
Soooo gooood! The Roast the Post photo is epic. 🔥 The Notes roundups made me laugh out loud. Uncompliant 4-Eva. 🤘🏽
The notes roundup made me cringe omggg
But they are all so funny and great! and I got to give some of the ones that slipped past the algo more sunshine! :D
Cowabunga, babe! 😂
Hey hey hey! good morning! You’re on the ball today. I haven’t even finished sharing the post and you’re already done and commented. Really thankful I asked Jennifer because she crushed it.
Inspiring to read about people who care about the people in the system. It’s so easy to forget we are the foundation to everything and need to be designed around first.
LOL so glad you asked her. I agree. The problem is usually the system, not the people. And Jennifer is one of the real ones who's working to change the system from the inside.